Welcome to the Feast Life, where we empower you, the modern homeschool mom, to create a life and homeschool you love, one founded on faith, family, freedom, and fun. I'm your host, Julie Ross, creator of the award winning homeschool curriculum, A Gentle Feast, and a certified Christian life coach. For more information on today's episode and to access my free gift for you, check out thefeastlife. me. Charlotte Mason once said, life should be all living, not a mere tedious passing of time. So on this show, we seek to help you to savor the feast of life. Girl, grab your favorite beverage and pull up a chair. You are welcome at this table.
Julie Ross: All right. Hello, everyone. I'm Julie Ross, the creator of A Gentle Feast, and I am here with my partner in crime. Shay.
Shay Kemp: Hello everybody.
Julie Ross: We haven't done one together in a while, have we?
Shay Kemp: It has been a while. Yes. We get to chat, but not always on podcast. That's true.
Julie Ross: So yes. So if you haven't listened to an episode with me and Shay yet, or Shay and I can talk grammar.
I know my grammar. We're going to be talking about grammar today, and I can't even put a sentence together, it's because it's too early in the morning, and I need more coffee, and then I couldn't use proper grammar. Anyway, Shay and I just like to chat, and we just want y'all to listen in while we chat to each other.
Shay Kemp: So we love to talk about Charlotte Mason, and we love to talk about language arts.
Julie Ross: So this is just having a little conversation here. So welcome to our little conversation. Today we're going to be talking about language arts in a Charlotte Mason education, which is Significantly different than how it's approached in a lot of other traditional education settings.
So I think it's important to go through the components that Charlotte Mason's includes. And some of the ones that surprisingly she doesn't include or includes in a slightly different way than what we're used to. If you would like. More information on the different components of language arts and how Charlotte Macy's addresses them.
We will link to that in the show notes at homeschooling. mom for this episode. But it starts on, in Home Education, which was her first volume. And it starts on page 199. And she starts off teaching about how to teach. reading to young children. And we have a whole nother episode. Don't ask me what number it is, Shay, because I haven't had enough coffee, but we will link to that episode as well.
If you have young children and you're wondering how to teach them how to read that is the first component of language arts was reading. So she has a whole section on teaching reading and then on page 226, she starts in with teaching reading to older children or how that's approached. And really she's pointing out that she has some really strong words here on page 227 about the habit of reading.
She says, the most common and monstrous defect in the education of the day is that children fail to acquire the habit of reading. Knowledge is conveyed to them by lessons and talk, but the studious habit of using books as a mean of interest and delight is not acquired. This habit should be gotten early.
So as soon as the child can read at all, He should read for himself to himself, history, legends, fairy tales, and other suitable matter. So Shay, do you have any thoughts on what you said there?
Shay Kemp: I think that's just one of the foundational things of the philosophy and her methods that sometimes scares people because they think, what do you mean that it's just reading?
Yeah. But then when we say just reading there, it's not just reading. The whole concept of reading itself is so full of all these other types of skills. Under that one heading and when we consider it to be not just reading, but the habit of reading and the knowledge that comes from that and the comprehension that comes from that and then doing it on their own, which of course goes back to that self education.
Cause I do have a lot of people say, so your language arts is basically, they just, they're going to read books all day. That's, but that's all you're doing. But just even that question shows that you don't understand what is dig a little bit deeper and find out what that actually means because it's the studious habit of using those books.
as a means of interest and delight. So when we start providing them, not just, we're not just giving them Dyer of a Wimpy Kid and saying, okay, this is your literature today. We're giving them books that are of interest and delight that habit starts coming out.
Julie Ross: I think even worse than Dyer of a Wimpy Kid are, is diluted excerpts of a really good book.
Shay Kemp: Oh, yes. That's a great point.
Julie Ross: Yeah. That's like giving your kid a carrot once a week and being like, we got our vegetables, like you're going to be very malnourished in a mind, we very malnourished if they're not fed really strong living books and really deep things that they're going to acquire that interest and delight from if they're diluted, you can't get those riches from, you can't feed your mind from those.
And, she's saying, it's a monstrous defect that they don't. acquire the habit of reading. And I know, we've talked to a lot of moms and we've done, I've done two podcasts now on dyslexia. And so I think that's important to mention here that even with children who struggle with reading, it is still possible to do a Charlotte Mason education that is based on books.
And if you're having a child who's struggling in that area, I highly podcasts. We'll link to those two, but You could read with your ears. That in that episode, right?
Shay Kemp: You can read with your ears. And I think it's, there's so many people who think I cannot follow this philosophy because I'm not like the, maybe the parents not a strong reader, but if you just take a few minutes to a little time to understand what the options are there and what she's really saying, and I, one thing that breaks my heart is that when I taught school our reading period every day was like, I think 20 minutes that they allowed us to actually put books in the hands of a child to read.
And it would really, yes, it would really break my heart and that's not acquiring the habit of reading. Yeah, that's really powerful to understand when you start to look into the way that she considers language arts.
Julie Ross: Yes, and that, and I think this is a good point too, that when the child Is able to, they should be able to start reading these things for themselves.
And I think some parents can be reluctant to let that go and they want to read everything to them and they want to read everything together as a family, but your child is going to get to an age in form two where they really need to start going off and reading these books on their own and then coming back and narrating, but doing that hard work of that self education, whether it's reading with their ears, reading with their eyes.
Shay Kemp: We've gone through that this year. That's been something for us because my daughter is in the fourth grade. And so we've done that weaning off this year where I'm starting to hand over things to her. And she doesn't really love it. She's a fabulous reader. And I think because she's the youngest of five, so she's been listening to books, for all these years.
So that's why. But she would rather me read everything to her, but her narrations are so much better when she reads it for herself. So I think that you really, I really see a difference in the narrations when she's listening. And so we switch off and it's been less and less as the year has gone on.
Julie Ross: Yeah. It's not like an abrupt shift. Oh, you can read now. Here's a pack of books. Good morning. Like you can. Family readings and things that you do together, but it can't be the bulk of their learning as they get older. And I've even seen people when their kids are in high school, they're reading everything with them, with the younger kids, and I'm like, I have to start doing this hard work of education because and she even addresses that in here.
A couple of pages later, they get lazy, right? If they're not having to build a
Shay Kemp: Human nature.
Julie Ross: We're all like that, right? I like somebody just to read to me all day long.
Shay Kemp: Exactly. Exactly. And the, but the more you put the tools in their hands, I was trying to explain to my daughter at the beginning of the year when I was saying, okay, now we're going to, you're going to read this book by yourself and I'm going to read this.
I'm like, okay. And then later on, you're going to read more. It's I'm starting you out with a spade. And you're going to do the digging with the spade. And later on, I'm going to give you a bigger shovel. And then you're going to do a bigger and bigger shovel until you're digging this for, you're digging these thing holes for yourself.
You're digging this information out for yourself, but I'm not going to hand her, one of these big, heavy shovels in the beginning of fourth grade. We're just going to do a little bit along. And she still doesn't love it. She does read the book of her books by herself, but she almost always says.
Do you don't you want to read this.
She would rather may read to her.
Julie Ross: She also says in here that it's important for students to read aloud, which is interesting and that and she's saying here, they should do that with a good deal of poetry. So I feel like that falls into the umbrella of recitation. So being able to read aloud. Usually a poem or a Bible verse or something is what she would have them use to practice how to properly enunciate.
She talks in here about proper breathing and all those things that nowadays we don't really pay attention to, but it is an amazingly important skill to be able to read something out loud clearly and effectively. And it also gives you a good indicator if how your child is progressing. Once they start reading on their own, having them read aloud to you every once in a while, or do their recitations, you see how they're progressing in their reading as well.
If you aren't, reading with them for everything.
Shay Kemp: I think that's a modern skill too, because of so many things. And I, I also have one who's a senior in college. So I have a big spread, but he has so many video meetings and zoom calls and even for the, his job that he has now.
It's important. I love this phrase. I've said this to my children so many times on page two 27, it says a beautiful word deserves to be beautifully said. And so I think it's important for them to have those skills. If I have something in front of me and I'm on a zoom call with, these clients or all these other people were, trying to think down the road, preparing me on, I'm able to read these.
in a proper way with, correct elocution and the way that I project my tone of voice. So it is a skill that even though she wrote this so long ago, it's a modern skill that kind of has fallen by the wayside. So I think it's important.
Julie Ross: Yes, for sure. And She also, this was the quote I was talking about, it's on 228, it says, We must remember the natural inertness of a child's mind.
Give him the habit of being read too, and he will steadily shirk the labor of reading for himself. Indeed, we all like to be spoon fed with our intellectual meat, or we should read and think more for ourselves and be less eager to run after lectures, which I would say today is I don't know, Podcasts, YouTube.
Oh wait, podcasts and YouTube videos. No,
Shay Kemp: nevermind. You should always listen to our podcasts and our YouTube.
What's funny is we do get a lot of questions from people who say, I don't have the inclination or the time to read the volumes for myself. So where can I find the most simplistic way to understand the philosophy and the methods. And I get that. Look, we are busy, but I also think it really sets the tone for your whole educational atmosphere in your home.
When your child sees you picking up a volume of Charlotte Mason's and setting your timer for five minutes, even and saying, I'm not going to have this meat spoon fed to me. I am going to, you. Set my timer, read for five minutes. I read for. Something of hers every day for 10 minutes. I set my timer and I read something of hers every day for 10 minutes.
And it, it's just 10 minutes, my kids know I'm going to read this for 10 minutes, something of hers every day, excuse me, every day. And I think that's important for us to show our children to
Julie Ross: yeah, they're very daunting, but it's just take a bite at a time. Like you're saying, and that's the habit that we're teaching our kids to is that slow way of reading.
And I don't think that's in here, but she dresses that later that, children shouldn't be rushing through the reading that, you want that slow and steady pace of reading so that they're just reading, a few pages even for the reading lesson. Thank you. When they're able to read by themselves and then the narrating is part of that reading lesson time, just taking those small steady steps in that right direction.
I think it's huge. And then, yeah, modeling that for them. So for our podcast is awesome. So you definitely listen
Shay Kemp: to that. And then you turn the podcast on while you're washing dishes. That's what I'm saying.
Julie Ross: You can't read and wash dishes. Your book will get ruined.
Shay Kemp: We're solving so many problems.
Julie Ross: And then she also says a child has not begun his education until he has.
acquired the habit of reading to himself with interest and pleasure books fully on a level with his intelligence. I am speaking now of his lesson books, which are all too apt to be written in a style of insufferable twaddle, probably because they are written by persons who have never chanced to meet a child.
So true.
Shay Kemp: So true. Oh yeah.
Julie Ross: Yeah. Yeah. Textbook writers. Yeah. Yeah, they don't have a whole time of the child. And then she talks about the importance, of letting them only have a single reading before they narrate. She also says that reading lessons, need to be short. On page 230, she says, for this reading, reading lessons must be short.
10 minutes or a quarter of an hour for fixed attention is enough for children of the ages we have in view. A lesson of this length will enable a child to cover two or three pages of a book. So that's not a ton of pages.
Shay Kemp: And it's amazing though, when this part of Charlotte Mason Language Arts just education altogether, because it doesn't matter what sort of book, but this is one of the things that scared me in the beginning, because I remember reading this when I was really studying and thinking there's no way.
There's no way that they're going to get anything out of two or three pages of a book, but If you trust the process and the methods, it is amazing how much they will get and how much I remember years ago I did, I don't, you may know that, but if some kind of book about memory how to increase the way that you, Remember things.
And it would always say, break it down into chunks. And so instead of, reading or trying to memorize a big chunk of something, you do a little bit. And this is, she was so brilliant, Charlotte Mason. So long before that, this is what we're saying. We're not giving them a whole chapter even, but we're giving them a few pages.
And then the next day they're going to remember that because the beginning and the ending are closer together. We lose what's in the middle. It's the beginning and the endings we remember. And so this. has proven itself to be so true with my children and even stopping that lesson when they want to go on.
So that their appetite is whetted. I'm like, no, the timer's off. Not for fun reading. I'm talking about school reading, which is different, but the timer's off and you're, you're done. That's it. And they're all want to finish the chapter. Cause I want to know what happens next. No. You're gonna you can finish that tomorrow.
And so the next day there is an excitement about that. Oh yes, we got to get back to that because I want to know what happens next.
Julie Ross: Whereas the reading lesson goes on and on. And you're going to have to stop some kids. Some kids will want to read an entire book in one sitting, and they're going to get sick, like eating a whole pizza in one sitting. It's not good, right? You can teach them that metaphor. You're going to get a lot more out of this book when you go in slow and slitty, chew your food before you swallow it kind of metaphor there. And and they'll enjoy it a lot more.
And so I think, there's some reading programs that take 45 minutes for a kid to go through all this stuff at a really young age. And you have to read this and then you have to do this. Activity with it and cut these things out, and that's way too long. Short, 10 minutes to 20 minutes here, but you're able to give a fixed attention to it.
So we want their reading lessons to be short so that they can focus on them. All right? And then she goes on to narrating, which we're not gonna delve into today either,
Shay Kemp: because
Julie Ross: we already have a whole progress on that one. So we'll link to that one. Okay, and then she talks about handwriting. So we'll jump in there because we have not talked about that yet.
So that's on page 233. And she says, First let the child accomplish something perfectly in every lesson. A stroke, a pot, a letter. Let the lessons be short. No more than five or 10. Minutes ease in writing comes by practice, but that must be secured later in the meantime. And she's talking about, avoiding the habit of careless work.
So let's talk about handwriting here.
Shay Kemp: I think copy work and the way that if we're talking about children that are just learning to form letters, of course, then that's right. That's more like the, here's the letter M. We need to do that. But I think that was really perfected when my. Form ones were in their copy work.
And they saw the reason that the letter M needs to look nice is because it's the beginning of the word more in context, but those five or 10 minutes, it's the same thing. You don't think that there's going to be a lot accomplished there, but they are so proud if they do that's done correctly.
And we do get a lot of questions about that, about what do I do if my child's copy work is, or their handwriting is sloppy. And so I say, I'm not sure that's your best. So tomorrow we're going to do that again. We're going to do that again tomorrow because I don't think that was your best.
And it doesn't take many times to say that to where they understand what you're expecting. Cause you don't want to beat them down where they're dreading that five or 10 minutes,
Julie Ross: right? And you're talking about. Once they actually know how to form their letters.
Shay Kemp: Like a
Julie Ross: child. Just starting
Shay Kemp: out.
Julie Ross: At the beginning, she just started out with strokes. And then letters, and putting like letters together. I think that's really important to, and she talks in here about like a child sized desk. And I know lots of us, myself included, like to do school around the dining room table or on the couch.
But when they're learning to make their letters, their feet need to be flat on the floor. They need to be able to sit up straight and to be able to have the book down at a proper level. And she mentions that in here. So I think that's really important if you're able to get a little child table for a child who's just starting out forming their letters.
I think that's a great way to go. I include this in my handwriting book, like some thoughts and ideas about that when they're just starting out. You don't want to start out with just pencil and paper. They will hold the pencil wrong. Pencils are too big for little tiny hands and paper doesn't have enough friction.
I say break a crayon in half and that makes them have the little pincer grip. So they'll hold the crayon, Learn how to hold the crayon correctly. Put a piece of sandpaper underneath the paper. If you're going to start out with paper, at least do it with crayon and something under it. But I prefer to start off like in the air, making the letters really big in the air, making them on a chalkboard preferably like a chalkboard on the wall.
So not only are they getting the resistance of the chalkboard, but they're building that fine motor strength by having to hold their arm up. But if you can't do that, anything on the wall will be better than, having them down at first.
Shay Kemp: I love all those. Fun things at that age when they're just learning the strokes and they're just learning, all those fun things, write them in sand and all those, Oh, I love those things.
Julie Ross: Paper and a pencil in front of them. First, just starting out making those letters. Yeah. You're really doing them a disservice. So yeah. Enjoy the fun. They're going to get there soon enough.
Shay Kemp: That time period goes by so quickly. And I used to have a little tub that had all of our handwriting. Or letter formation stuff in it.
And, oh, I used to love to pull that out. We had all kinds of stuff in there and my kids just love to Even using crayons own sandpaper. They used to love to do that. Writing, writing on the sandpaper and all those, I miss all that.
Julie Ross: So once they're able to form their letters well, and she says they should be able to do six very good Ms in a row.
Once they're able to do that with their letters, then you can start copy work. And this is where you're caught. They're copying words at a time. They should not be looking at. Susie is smart. They shouldn't be copying S. U. They should be able to look at Susie.
Shay Kemp: Yes.
Julie Ross: Now write the word Susie. So copywork is words, not just letters.
So now once they're able to form their letters well, and there is no, like your child is sick, so they should be doing copywork fully yet
Shay Kemp: don't
Julie Ross: know their letters yet and they're not, don't have good handwritings, go back, do the handwriting first and then jump into the copywork.
Shay Kemp: That's hard for people.
Cause they're like, we're in the first grade. Aren't we supposed to be doing this and that? You can't answer that question. Cause I don't sit down with your child and know exactly what they can do. Just have the freedom and. Take a deep breath and trust yourself. You know your child and you know what they're capable of doing.
Can they look at the word Susie and say, this says Susie. Okay. If they're not there yet, it's okay. It doesn't matter what their age is. It's okay. Just start back on practicing the S's. That's okay. Take your time and
Julie Ross: yeah. And, they might not be able to read Susie yet, but can they read?
Set. Can they read? If they are beginning like consonant, vowel, consonant. And seeing that set of words together. Letters together make words. If they don't, that like copywork is going to be absolutely meaningless to them because the goal is to learn how to spell by seeing entire words at a time. Yeah, there's no hard or fast rule of when to start this.
I tell people it really depends on their child's handwriting ability, but also where they are in reading as well. The variation there. Now Charlotte Mason talks about that children should pick, and in here too, just so if you go back and read it, you might be wondering, and she calls it transcription in here, referred to as copywork.
She uses both terms. But it's basically, looking at a passage and transcribing it or copying it down. She had the children pick their favorite passages, which I think is a very delightful way to do it. It gets them interested. Though, the whole goal is it's not this arbitrary passage out of air.
Like it's something that's interesting to them or something that's related to something that they've been reading or something that they've been studying. So it actually has meaning and context to their lives. And I'm not just copying aimless stuff like but found in my own homeschooling journey that it took too long for them to figure out what they wanted to actually copy and, or they wanted to copy sentences that were super short just to make it easy.
Shay Kemp: That's what mine. Yes, that is exactly what we do. Can I do this sentence? The mole ran across the field. No, you cannot copy that sentence if you're in the fifth grade. You cannot. I'm sorry. Yeah, it's mine take a little encouragement and I think modeling is super important for that. As they say, like instead of me when I would just choose copy work for them, I would say I'm choosing the sentence.
out of your passage here, or here's a paragraph, which of these three sentences do you like, and then talk about why I was choosing that, because this has some punctuation in it, or why did you choose that sentence? If they chose the mole ran across the field because it's the shortest one that's really not our, Indication, so is there a word in this sentence that you think challenges you or are you interested in it or
Julie Ross: Yeah, for sure.
So yeah, just, you might want to pick a few beforehand, history books, literature books, poetry. hymns, Bible verses always make really good copywork passages. If you have a way to stand a book up so they can see it upright and copy it from that for the language arts packets for a gentle feast, I picked the passages and that was a huge help.
Once I started picking them for them, just eliminated a lot more time. And I think the key with copywork and with all these language arts components is you have to be consistent.
Shay Kemp: And
Julie Ross: when I was letting my kids. Choose them. And we were doing copywork sporadically and they weren't getting the benefits when we started doing it every day, we did these language arts components every week, then I started seeing the benefits that she talks about here and the purposes of them.
Shay Kemp: That is such an important key. Is this the consistency on, like you said, all of these things. It's that if you're doing the handwriting and they're still forming the letters that they're doing that every day so they can see progression. And if you're doing copy work, doing it consistently so they can see progression because if they're only doing it once a week, it's not You're just not going to see that, but when they, I love, my kids love to go back and look at their, even my ninth grader, she will go back and look at her cursive from the beginning of this year and see how much, I don't know if you were like me in high school, did you love to Toy with your handwriting, Oh, my
Julie Ross: writing.
My name was some boys last name elementary school. That was a nice goal, but yeah,
Shay Kemp: I was making the pretty letters, she's like, Oh, I'd say now we've got a slant to it this week, a beautiful slant, and so I think it's consistency. If you don't do that every day, then they're not going to be able to see how far they have come.
And that's super important.
Julie Ross: So copy work is every day. It's only five or 10 minutes. So this is really not a whole big chunk of your day. That you can do, just a little bit, add on a little bit to the passage or the poem or whatever it is that they're copying every day. Okay. And then she talks about spelling.
So she says the way that she teaches spelling is through something called dictation. She says the fact is the gift of spelling depends on the power of the eye to possess in a photographic sense, a detailed picture of the word. And this is a power and habit, which must be cultivated in children from the first, when they read cat, they must be encouraged to see the word with their eyes shut.
And the same habit will enable them to imagine thermopoly. This picturing of words upon the retina appears to me to be the only royal road to spelling. An error once made and corrected leads to a fearful doubt for the rest of one's life as to which way is the wrong way and which is the right. She taught spelling through visual.
So it's not memorizing a bunch of spelling rules, and then you can learn how to spell. It's writing these words from this copywork, seeing them as a whole word. So you know, even when you're teaching reading, this is why everything has to flow together here. They are learning phonics, but they're looking at also the same time doing sight lessons and seeing a word as a whole.
And yeah, because even, now sometimes I still second guess myself when I'm spelling a word and I'm trying to remember the rule. Yes. That doesn't actually apply half the time or is broken or.
Shay Kemp: Because if you're comfortable with the word, then you see it in your mind and you just write it, if you're comfortable with the word and that's the goal for them is to be able to see it in their mind.
I, this is another one I remember the first time I read about, spelling. I'm like, what? You mean to tell me we're not going to give a list? I'm coming from public school, right? Where we got a list
Julie Ross: on every spelling test.
Shay Kemp: I can't be out of my mind by, Friday
Julie Ross: afternoon.
Shay Kemp: Exactly same thing.
And this is what I tell everybody that asked me about this is that this is the only actual carryover from a spelling program I have ever had. So when my children were younger and before I would just really trusted this and I was still pulling out, I know it's really terrible, but I was still pulling out I have to give you five words to learn this week.
Cause that's my crutch. It makes me feel good. And I, it, nothing would carry over. They would then, because then they would write and they couldn't spell that word. So the only carryover that I've ever had is from teaching spelling this way, and then in their writing, they actually remember how to spell it.
Julie Ross: Yeah, I totally agree with that. Yeah, for sure. They're looking at the words and then she has them, Doing something called dictations. Do you want to explain what that is for people who don't know what that is?
Shay Kemp: Yes. So whatever you have transcribed that week or used as copy work, your child is going to study.
Now I know I've read some things that say some of them did a different, sometimes they did a different copy work every day. But so we use the same copy work and then we, they study that copy work as they're going on. So they're looking at the spelling, which we just talked about. They're looking at the punctuation.
And then on Fridays. I guess you don't have to do it, Brian. This is how we do it. I speak that passage to them, broken up into sentences or chunks, and they write it down from memory. If we were doing this, I would read the first sentence, and they would write, The animal, whatever, ran across the field to the farm.
And then I say that the animal ran across the field to the farm and they copy that down with correct spelling and correct punctuation. It seems. It's so ridiculously simple, but it is incredibly powerful. It is incredibly powerful because they have to have the power of attention, the habit of attention.
They're listening to you. It's
Julie Ross: really hard. And with my daughter, who has lots of learning disabilities, the dictation, I have to break the chunks. I'll read the whole sentence like you did, but I have to say one word. Yeah, you still at the point where she cannot remember, whereas my older kids, I could just say the whole sentence.
Yes. It was probably the whole sentence. I don't think go word by word now. Oh yeah, it's knowing your kid too. Yeah.
Shay Kemp: And then for them to understand, they also are visually because they've been looking at this copy work there in their inner eye. In their mind, they are seeing there was a comma after the end of that phrase.
Now, of course, we're not talking about second, third, fourth, fifth grade even, but later on, especially like my ninth grader, I can see the look on her face. There's a comma there. I remember there's a comma in that place. So that way, the grammar of it in dictation is really embedding itself because intrinsically I've taught so many writing classes.
And one year I taught nothing but seventh. Seventh grade boys. And I used to say they would just throw commas out, just throw them out by the handfuls. You know
Julie Ross: about that. She says too much focus on grandma will lead to a misuse of commas.
Shay Kemp: Yes. And it was just like 12 commas and everything, just throwing out those commas.
And so we would work on picture that sentence that you're writing. And that some of that's just intrinsic, it comes from looking at the books that we're reading and this all so ties together. It's really hard to compartmentalize, but they've been looking at these books that are well written and they've been seeing these comments where one is put, you get that feeling for it.
Then they study their copy work as they go during the week. And then on Friday or whatever day you choose to do your dictation. As you read these, I don't have to say this phrase and then. Comma, but they can hear it in the pause
Julie Ross: that she wouldn't say that. She would pause her pause. Yes. A slight pause is a comma, probably, and a slight pause is an end punctuation.
And you're going to explain that to them as they're reading the passage, as they're studying it throughout. They point out those things to them, yes,
Shay Kemp: and that's why recitation's powerful, too, because It goes back to that when they're reading these beautifully words that deserve to be beautifully said, they learn, how do I say this passage and include this comma?
What does that sound like in my own voice for me to read this? What does a comma sound like? What does a period sound like? What does a semi colon sound like? So it ties together and then they do that dictation.
Julie Ross: And Charlotte Mason had dictation starting in form two. So about fourth grade, they would have a passage that they were going to have to be able to spell from memory, on a weekly basis.
Like you were saying, it's not, they're not copying three pages.
Shay Kemp: So even if
Julie Ross: your copywork passage was long or they've been copying a whole poem all week, don't expect them to do that from memory. You start with one sentence or a few words, even if your child struggles. And add on from there so that, as they get older, they'll be able to do that.
And, at first I was like, Oh, we're ever going to get past it. A few sentences every week, and but, it's true. My daughter is in seventh grade now she could do she just did the whole introduction to the declaration of independence this week.
Shay Kemp: It's amazing how it's amazing how it builds on each other.
But I also want to say it must be consistent. You can't do dictation. Okay. You did your, let's pick a passage. Yeah, you've got to do it every week. And when you put too much pressure on yourself, I think is when you don't do it, but when you say we're going to set this timer and whatever you get In five minutes.
That's it. It's okay. Whatever we get it in 10 minutes and you want it to be such a positive experience. And you say, look at that, last week. Maybe we only got three words in. Look at this week. You got that entire sentence in. I'm, I really give out the stickers on dictation for young ones.
I'm like lots of stickers on that dictation work at the end of the week. That is such a great, and because it really does build faster than you think that it will build.
Julie Ross: And even though you're at my student include. Dictation to form two in a gentle feast for form one. So grades one through three, which really most kids it'll be second or most kids, third grade that I only have them.
I do have them do something kind of dictation, French style dictation, where they're just learning a few sight words. And instead of copying the whole passage, I give them the passage with the words that they've been studying all week. to fill in the blanks. So like the, and big, simple words, you can give them a sentence and then just leave blanks for those words, but then fill in like mouse and field, like in the sentence you were using for an example, they're not learning how to spell those, but some basic sight words they can, if they're handwriting's and they're reading well, they're ready, I think for some simple words and it gives them that habit.
Shay Kemp: Yes, and it being in context, it's so important for that random
Julie Ross: word. Yes,
Shay Kemp: Because I think that's why I love that style of dictation for a form one, because it's not just, okay, spell the T H E, but they're seeing where it is in the sentence. How is that short word used in a sentence? And, one thing that's really interesting is when my form two got to the lesson on articles.
And she said I already know that because I don't know. I know where to put them in dictation. And she, that's what she said. She said, I know what that is. Those are the words that we used to fill in and it's because, yes, that's where you start. And so it was a lot of those articles. And so it's amazing how much they pick up that sort of skill in context.
Julie Ross: Yeah, that's a good point. So here's how you give a dictation lesson. She says on page 242, the teacher asked if there's any words that he's not sure of. I have my kids looking at that passage all week as part of copywork. So it's not just a passage that they're just getting now for dictation, which I think is not what he's doing.
But even even though they've been sitting at all week, I still ask them that. Are there still any words that you're unsure of? And we put them, it says the teacher puts them on the board one by one, letting the child look until he has a picture and then rubbing the word out. If anyone is still doubtful, he should be called to put the word he is not sure of on the board.
The teacher watching to rub out the word when a wrong letter begins to appear, and again, helping the child to get a mental picture. Then the teacher gives out the dictation clause by clause, each clause repeated once, and that's the key. So that's why you have to know your kid in order to break it down.
Like I was saying, I can read a whole, I read the whole sentence so they get the flow of the language. But then some kids, like your example, like the mouse ran to the field, you might be able just to say that to some kids and they can just write the mouse ran to the field.
Shay Kemp: Whereas
Julie Ross: I'll say the mouse ran to the field and when I want to, I'll say the,
Shay Kemp: yes,
Julie Ross: she writes down the, and then I'll say mouse.
Like I can't give her more than a couple of words at a time. Her brain just can't hold all that information. And what she was having. And then she says she dictates with a view to the pointing with the children are expected to put in as they write. But. They must not be told comma, semi colon. So here, the teacher can give these pointing things before, they do the dictation.
Oh, there's a comma there. Oh, yeah. And they can, like I was saying, I'm very dramatic with my pauses when I'm reading. So they know that something was supposed to go there. Something
Shay Kemp: goes there. This is where this is inserted. Yeah.
Julie Ross: After the sort of preparation I've described, which takes 10 minutes or less, there's rarely an error in spelling.
If there be, it is well worth the while for the teacher to be on the watch. With slips of stamp paper to put over the wrong word, then its image may be erased as far as possible. At the end of the lesson, the child should again study the wrong word in his book until he can be sure of it, and write it over the stamp paper.
I don't know what stamp paper is, because I don't, you can use, little bit post it notes, you can use whiteout. Mine, if I just, I'm watching. If my kids start, like she was saying, if they start writing it on the board, and the first time one of the letters is off. I'll point out.
Okay. Nope. Picture it in your mind. Try it again.
How do you do that?
Shay Kemp: I do the same thing because I do copy work. Dictation individually with my children. So she's, I think what she's talking about, since it's in a classroom setting, it would be hard. I think this is hard.
That would be hard to keep up. But so I just watch them when they do dictation. And as soon as, she started, one of them starts with the wrong word letter. Like you're saying, I'm like, that's not it. Let's stop. And I want you to think about it. If they cannot get it, then I write it down on a sticky note for them so that they see the correct answer.
And then I'll let them write it down. And then whenever we're done. So it's right there. It's on the paper. And so then when we're done, whatever words there are on the sticky notes, they have, I want them to go over those words, because I know that's not what they got. But I will say this, that is, Form two really as they progress through form two.
I have some of that, but rarely do I have that very much once they hit like form three. I think it's sometimes if there's one of those tricky names, like there's been some names that are like those Greek names and stuff like that, and I'm like about
Julie Ross: that. Don't. Get the child they don't have, yeah, you're
Shay Kemp: not trying to trick them.
I do want to encourage parents to understand that it, that really rarely happens when you've been studying copy the passage, when you've really been looking at the passage. Most of the time, they're like, Oh, maybe, Those tricky, sometimes weird spellings, like we had a word, the word the other day, peace or something, and she was not sure about the I and the E.
So we have some of those things, but that just doesn't happen that often.
Julie Ross: As
Shay Kemp: you progress, in the beginning more, in the beginning more, but as you progress, it really doesn't happen often.
Julie Ross: Yeah, no. Yeah. I've been amazed for my child who could barely spell it all. Who's now in seventh grade, writing the whole introduction, declaration of independence with no errors and none of me pointing out how to spell any of the words.
I was just like, Oh my goodness. This works.
Shay Kemp: Why are we still so surprised? Yeah. Yeah.
Julie Ross: But at the beginning I wondered because it was. Several words in her dictation passage, struggle with or we'd sit through them. I'm gonna have to go. My alarm was going off for some reason. It's driving me bananas.
So I'll be right back.
Hey everyone, Julie Ross here. I just wanted to pop in and let you know about something special that I am doing. Starting May 7th, I will be doing a free three day workshop called The Gentle Art of Homeschooling. So, you may have chosen to homeschool because you want to give your children the gift of an education that looks vastly different from our modern education system.
You know, the one of checking off all the boxes, cramming in all the facts, and the one size fits all mentality. You long for connections, deep discussions, and a slower pace of life. You want your children to develop good character, critical thinking, and a love for learning. But all the different curriculum options and educational philosophies and all those voices are making your head spin.
And you wish you could just have someone take your hand and guide you through it all. Well now you can. Join me for three days for this free workshop. I have helped thousands of families walk through the gentle art of homeschooling and I would love to share what I have learned with you as well. So to sign up, go to thefeastlife. me forward slash gentle to save your seat and join me for three days where I will show you how to fill your homeschool with creativity, curiosity, and connection. Again, that's thefeastlife. me forward slash gentle.
Julie Ross: Okay, sorry. The guy said he was gonna fix it. He told me how to fix it and it's still going off. Okay. I can't deal with the beeping noise. All right, so we're going to start back here. I couldn't hear it, so that's good. I couldn't concentrate.
Shay Kemp: Yeah.
Julie Ross: So as they're going through, again she says, Illiterate spelling is usually a sign of sparse reading, but sometimes of hasty reading, without the habit of seeing the words that are skimmed over.
So I think this is really important. When people are asking me my child still struggles with spelling, and I'm like are they reading, The books to themselves. No, I read it to them. Then they're not seeing these words. Or even, if a kid is listening to an audio book, I always have them follow along the actual book.
So they're seeing the words as they're hearing them or reading with their ears, as we say. But then I also have kids who read too fast. And so I think the importance of slowing down when you read is you're not rushing through it. Because They'll guess at the word based on the first couple of letters or what, how it sounds like, and they're not taking the time to see the whole word.
So you really want to encourage that. And it does all tie together, right? All right. And then she goes on to composition, which we're not going to spend a ton of time on either, because that really has to do with their oral narrations and transferring them to written narration. But as a child, or the episode that I have on how to teach high school,
Shay Kemp: that is a great one.
Julie Ross: They are learning how to write. It's just gonna happen later than we might expect. A child, today's world. It's oh I think it was like the Nash, the national I can't remember the name of the study, but it came out about three years ago. And it was 1 percent of all graduating seniors could write a well thoughtful and organized essay.
Shay Kemp: I remember hearing that.
Julie Ross: And it's yeah, it's crazy. But we had this idea of oh, our high school kids aren't writing very well, so we need to teach kindergartners now how to write paragraphs. It's like giving a 16-year-old keys, a 4-year-old, some keys, and be like, somebody, you're gonna be 16.
You're gonna to learn how to drive, so we're gonna start today. Hold days, instead.
Shay Kemp: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Julie Ross: It's writing is a developmental skill. So the copy work, they're looking at great passages, right? They're having that example that they're writing from, they're reading and hearing these great books.
So when they are able to write on their own, which is a process that happens through narration, from talking and then to writing they incorporate so much of this wonderful language in the styles of the authors that they've been reading. And that's how people learned for, Hundreds of years how to write, right?
It's not like Charlotte Mason has some weird voodoo way of writing that like she just pulled out of thin air that we think of because it's so different. But no, people were doing this for way longer until we decided that we were going to, factorize make these factory models of education. If we just put these kids in these systems, they'll learn how to write well.
They don't. It's forced. It has no style, it has no voice.
Shay Kemp: I think it's it's so hard sometimes for people to, to embrace the whole concept of this philosophy, this way of teaching language arts, when actually it's the most natural way to teach it. It's the least manufactured and the least forced because you just immerse them in what you want their end product to look like.
If if you want a child to write like this particular book, that's wonderful, or this wonderful essay, or this, if this is what you want your end product to be, we immerse our children into that as early as we can. And that's why we all sit around the table in the morning and listen to poetry that we may not really understand.
single word because this is what we want our end product to be. We may listen to books that we do not understand every single word in and get every single phrase or concept because This is what we want your end product to be. So when we put them into that, it builds. And then when they get to like my ninth grader and the things, some of the things that she writes, I'm amazed by because But it's because she's been hearing this since she was in one.
Julie Ross: Yes, they hear that style of writing. And that's how people talk, they looked at models of great writers, and they would copy them. Just like you do for art, famous painter, you don't have to pull it out of thin air and we're making kids do that and they can't they don't have the experiences to do that.
I love how she says that she says composition comes by nature. In fact, lessons on composition should follow the model of that famous essay on snakes in Ireland. There are none. She's so funny. She just cracks me up. Like I think her and I would just be like best friends. I know. I hate we didn't get her witty sense of like British humor.
Anyway. For children under nine, the question of composition revolves itself into that of narration, varied by some such simple exercise as to write a part and narrate a part, or write the whole account of a walk they have taken, a lesson they have studied, or of some simple matter that they know. Before they are 10, children who have been in the habit of using books will write good, vigorous English with ease and freedom, that is, if they have not been hampered by instructions.
It is well for them not to even learn rules for placing a full stops in capitals. Until they notice them and the books for themselves. Our business is to provide children with material and their lessons and leave the handling of such material to themselves. If we would believe it, composition is as natural as jumping and running to children who have been allowed to use the books.
They should narrate in the first place and they will compose later readily enough, but they should not be taught composition. And, it's not that they never learn that they do in high school have formal composition lessons, but if we hinder that and we bring those lessons in too early, we hinder that natural kind of progression.
And
Shay Kemp: that's almost heresy in the world of teaching language arts by these. Lessons that are broken down into concepts and the scope and sequence, it's almost like when you tell people this no, I'm not going to try to teach them exactly how to write a paragraph in the fourth grade, because they're going to learn how to do that as they progress in the books that they read because they've been reading great paragraphs.
If you're not allowing your child to read great paragraphs, you got to work the whole program in order for each part to fall into place and each building block to grow on top of each other.
Julie Ross: Yes, and also that natural, she's talking in here about grammar, that we shouldn't be teaching them a bunch of rules before they're noticing these things for themselves and pointing them out. So let's jump into the subject of grammar here. I'm trying to find that.
Shay Kemp: Grammar just goes around and around and around, it's the same thing in a grammar book that's in the ninth grade as what's in the grammar book in the fifth grade.
So why are we so worried about, and I have had people say to me, this grammar seems too simple. Like, why is this so simple? But we're not trying to, the goal is not for them to memorize if I say, tell me what a preposition is, okay? And then to say, okay, I can tell you exactly what it is. Because in work, when we're working and we're, I'm writing something for work, I'm not thinking, oh, let me come up with a great you know, adverb to go here.
It comes from the misunderstanding, right? These things I've read, and so it's not that you have to be able to know the labels and know that the goal is, like I said before, is that what's the end product and that grammar is so much of is absorbed in these wonderful books, and, Yeah, I think the grammar that we're doing now, of course we use a gentle feast, but the grammar that we do now with just the little bites as we go that builds, it's so powerful, but it really, the real grammar comes from what we're reading.
Julie Ross: Yes. And I'll link to this in the show notes too. It's a great article by Ruth Beechik on it's called, I hate grammar.
Shay Kemp: I
Julie Ross: know. I love her. You know that again, she's pointing out that the what's the end goal when they write well. And do you know, that's the goal is, can they work well? That's why we learn grammar, right?
So if that's our end goal, what's the best way to get to that goal? Is it diagramming sentences and learning rules and doing 45 minutes of grammar lessons? Every
Shay Kemp: miserable and you hate it, right? That's why you hate it. You hate it because you're working so hard to learn something in a way that is not natural.
It's just not natural for us to, and listen, okay. I was a little bit of a nerd in eighth grade. I was a nerd in eighth grade. We had diagramming sentences. I love me some diagramming.
I'm not knocking it. Listen, I love to diagram. I'm like, Ooh, here's a long one. And it's got all these adverbs. And this line goes here. I loved it. And by the time you get there, okay, great. But if we do that, it's like almost if you fed your kid, a cupcake every single day, you have to eat this cupcake.
After a couple of years, if you showed them a cupcake, it would be like, Oh, please don't make me eat that. And I feel like that's what we do. We're handing them this stuff in. second grade, third grade, and we're beating it over their heads for all these years. And so by the time we get to high school, where they really do need to be understanding it to write these intelligent compositions and express themselves and in good narrations they're just done.
They're done with this grammar. They don't want to see it anymore. Think about it. Yeah.
Julie Ross: Yeah. And that was the point in the article and what Toronto Mason was referring to, if you wait until they're older, you can give them a grammar book that teaches them rules and they will accept it.
with the knowledge that this is going to help me be a better writer and they have something that they're applying it to and it's not just these arbitrary senses that they're diagramming which yes for kids like us that's super fun but like you're saying with the cupcake thing like that just because it's super fun doesn't mean we need to keep stepping it down our throats and that they'll they'll be able to apply it to what they're actually writing which is the goal is be able to write well and like you're saying
Shay Kemp: they'll recognize it Yeah, it's
Julie Ross: great that you know that's an interjection, right?
And that you know how to punctuate it, but why are you putting it in your sentences? And just filling in these arbitrary grammar worksheets that have no meaning to them. And that's why I think grammar books repeat themselves constantly is because they have to keep drilling it and drilling it and drilling it for kids to get it because it's so arbitrary, and if you wait till they're older she started formal grammar lessons in form two, which is around fourth grade.
And her book was called simply grammar. You can look it up. It's in the public domain. We can link to it if you want. Kendra, Karen Andreola took it and put it into like a more simplified kind of book for parents by that same title, I believe, but it is very simple. It is. It's just these, like you're saying, these little bite sized pieces that they get over time that add up to an understanding of proper usage and punctuation, but then tying that into what they're writing.
And, five, ten minutes. Tops
Shay Kemp: done every day. Done.
Julie Ross: Not pages and pages. Some grammar curriculum. I mean it's like 45 minutes to an hour for a grammar lesson. I don't even wanna do that. No .
Shay Kemp: This is like torture. Yeah, and I think that's the short lessons. We keep coming back to that. And I know we do, but I read.
And answer so many questions from so many moms who just were really worried about those short lessons. There's no way that 10 minutes is enough. But if your child is paying attention just for those 10 minutes, it really, it really is enough. It really is enough. And then you, and just be done. And then they don't walk away and say, Oh, I hate grammar.
I'm like, Oh, that was 10 minutes. . And then you move, and then you move on. And then the next day when you, or whatever day you're doing grammar. 'cause we don't do grammar every single day. We do something that involves grammar, but we don't call it grammar. But the next time you pull out grammar, it's oh God, we gotta do grammar.
It's okay, 10 minutes. This takes 10 minutes and we're done. And then they have that taste in their mouth that is good when you mentioned the word grammar. Cause I can tell you now, I really made some big mistakes in my older children when they were younger. And I can even say grammar.
In fact, my oldest child, I had this grammar. Okay. And every day, There was a front and the back of a page. It was more than 10 minutes, right? I was not doing well. Okay, in my defense, I had a bunch of really small kids running around. I did not check his grammar workbook for, I don't know, it was too long, right?
We've all been there. It was probably in the third or fourth grade. I don't really remember now. So one day we did morning time and I said son, lay your grammar book out, please. Cause I need to check it. You could see the blood and it would go from the top. It was dropping down his face was turning white, and I thought, Oh my gosh. So I got his grammar book and he had literally written on multiple pages. This is dumb. Stupid page after page punctuate them correctly. I was so shocked, I don't even know, I was like, what? And this was my indication that this grammar is probably, this is probably not the best choice of grammar for my child.
Because, this is not. So I'm telling you that story, don't do what I did. Beat it in them, where every day he's having to do this grammar that he literally, It's just stressing my kid out, stressing him
Julie Ross: totally out. It's such an abstract concept, right? Why is that called a preposition?
Shay Kemp: Who knows,
Julie Ross: right? We're putting these arbitrary names to things. And so I think, waiting till they have that abstract reasoning makes a lot of sense. Like when they're around 10 or 11 and they're able to think abstractly, that's why you wait later for some of these math concepts as well. And grammar is like a language to itself, when they're younger, they, this is so meaningless to them. It's I want to choose an action word because it makes sense in the sentence. And I want to be able to express to you what I'm doing. I don't need to know that it's called a verb or this is a helping verb with it. Or, or it's the past participle of the, I didn't even know all that stuff.
Shay Kemp: I have to look it up and, or if my daughter will ask me a question, cause she's. And four and three, so she does have a grammar book that she does a little bit in every week and she'll say, mom, which is this? I don't know. I don't remember. A lot of times I can read the sentence and feel what should be there, but yes, but I don't know the name for it and that's fine with me.
It doesn't, I'm good with that.
Julie Ross: And you don't necessarily, yeah, like you're saying, we are able to intuitively know, does that sound right? Yes. Punctuation rules I think are a little different. Those come in when you're writing and you're writing well and you can give a child a book and they can learn, okay, this is, comma goes inside the quotes and those kind of things when they're older, but the usage comes from listening to really great books and knowing, oh wait, that doesn't sound good.
That makes no sense. Oh, that sentence, I just kept going and going. There's no, I got, I'll be reading my daughter's written narrations and we correct one of those usually. It should be once a week, but it's not, let's just be honest. Every couple of weeks, we'll be like, I'll be reading it to her and I be overdramatic, but I'll just keep going on and on.
Cause there's no punctuation. And I'm like, I'm going to pass out. I can't breathe. There's no pauses in anything you just wrote here. I still start laughing. She's okay, I'll add some comments.
Shay Kemp: Apparently I need to get back. And that's why I always tell my writing students, read your papers out loud to someone or yourself before you turn them in because most of the time you will catch that kind of stuff when you hear it by your ear.
And I want to go back to this is why they need to be reading where they can see the words. Yes. A lot of times, even when I read to my daughter, I will have her sit beside me so she can see what I'm reading and follow along because it's important that she sees mom stopped there because there was a period.
Mom paused there because she's not taking, saying that in her mind, but those are the things she's picking up. As she sees and that's why as soon as they can, like Charlotte Mason says, let them read on their own because you are allowing them to learn grammar by allowing them to do that. It's just not in a workbook form.
Julie Ross: Yes. And I think we, we don't always recognize that, especially like even like their recitation. readings, pointing out, okay, why is there a period here? Okay if there wasn't, and I had to keep reading this whole entire poem without pausing, I would pass out. That period is there for a reason.
Here's what you do when you're reading it out loud, pointing that out to them. You don't have to have a workbook page where they learn the four different types of sentences over and over again. know that there's supposed to be an end punctuation there, you can find that. Oh, when you're reading this one, it ends in a question.
So did you notice like your voice naturally went up at the end? That's why, it's a question. They're asking something. There's this is called a question mark. It can all be very natural without something that they're doing like a drilling kill every week for grammar. Anyway, do you have any closing thoughts on what we've been talking about today?
Shay Kemp: I think the only encouragement I would really give parents is to really just accept the whole concept. And not just dip your toes in because I think if you just say, okay we're just going to do copy work, we're also going to use all these textbooks for all these other things. I think that leads to frustration because I think you're not going to see the progression that really you will see when you use every component and allow it to be like we've said multiple times a natural way of learning.
But when you. Include the really the living books include the children reading, of course, when they're able to and not reading everything to them when you are doing what's age appropriate and level appropriate for your child, all these different things we talked about. All of those things create a beautiful.
language arts education. Yes. But little bits here and there, I think you're going to maybe get frustrated because you're like, why are they not getting this? And it's because each thing really, we really are created to learn this way. Our brains are created to with tweaks, of course, but this is the way we are created to learn.
And when we put all this together, then it's really a powerful way for your children to learn. Own this language arts education for themselves.
Julie Ross: Yeah. That's such a good point. Thank you for bringing that up because I did that at first. Like I, I heard about copywork and I was like, Ooh, this sounds fun. I bought a book, like copywork for little girls.
And I had all these like cute little passages in it. Like we're doing copywork. And then I'm like why are my kids not loving this? Like it was just some arbitrary thing that I like piled on to okay you're going to do this workbook for this subject. Okay. Here's the copywork workbook.
And now you're moving to this other workbook. There was no integration with anything that we were doing. The value of it. I wasn't doing dictation. I never even heard of that. So they weren't learning spelling from it. They're just copying the, and they're probably just doing the letter by letter thing as they copied the whole work.
There was no purpose to it. And yeah, I, and we, they weren't getting the benefits out of it that I wanted, which was the spelling and the proper handwriting, the punctuation. They were frustrated, because it was just an arbitrary thing. So I really do feel like you've been such a good point and it does all fit together.
And when it does. It's so natural. Yes. It's just like a breath of fresh air. I felt like when I figured it out and how to put it all together. And not
Shay Kemp: frustrating. You're not frustrated, because it just all goes to, oh my gosh, we didn't get our grammar workbook done today. One of the things that just helps me take a deep breath is, Okay, but they read some really beautiful passages today.
And there's some great grammar points in that. I don't have to put it on a worksheet. I don't have to. It all goes together. And that makes me less stressed. And makes me more relaxed. And our kids so pick up on that. If we are really trusting what we're doing. What we're providing for them, this feast that we've said so many times, if we're trusting that, oh my goodness, this is fabulous.
We're relaxed and they're relaxed. And they're able to really take from it what they need and it makes school a totally different experience.
Julie Ross: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's great. It, yeah, it's just flows. Everybody can be relaxed. It's actually like enjoyable. It's great. Yeah. Of course, yeah, we all have our moments but I've just found it to be such a natural relaxing way to learn some of these things.
Key components. Thanks for coming and chatting with me today.
Shay Kemp: Always love to talk about, especially books and Charlotte Mason.
Julie Ross: And if you're looking for a really easy way to teach some of these language arts components in the show notes, I'll link to the language arts packets that I have for our dental fees.
Definitely for form one, they're based on the different history cycles, but for form one and two, no matter what history you're using or what curriculum you're using for other things, you can use these language arts Books that will fit very well. When they get to be form three and it does tie more in with the full curriculum, but form one and two, you really can use them with whatever you're using.
And it does have the copywork and some beginning grammar concepts and the dictation, just to if you need help with that consistency, there's a lot of people I know who don't, and they're able to do this on their own using the living books that they have and get the copywork passages from them and do the dictation every week for them.
And, add in a very simple kind of grammar.
Shay Kemp: I'm not that girl.
Julie Ross: So if you're like Shane, you're like, help. Language arts packets from a dental piece, if you're interested in checking them out.
Shay Kemp: I need my language arts packets. Yes. I love them. Love them. Love them.
Julie Ross: Yeah. It keeps me accountable.
It's it's and like you said, it's so nice to be able to have everything all together so that we can go back and look at okay, this is how you were writing at the beginning of the year. Look how much you progressed, and we wouldn't have that. And I would, I always felt like I was like trying to track down notebooks and pieces of paper and it was just too much.
I need simple in my life. So me too. Yes. All right, girl. Thanks so much for joining me. I appreciate it. Thank you. Take care. Thanks.
Hey there, Julie Ross here. I just wanted to say thank you for listening to today's episode. If you like this show, it would mean the world to me. If you would leave a positive review in iTunes, this really does help people learn about the podcast and each month I will pick a winner to receive a free gift.
Don't forget to check out all the free resources we created for you at thefeastlife. me. Thank you.
